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Excellence Foresight with Nancy Nouaimeh
Welcome to Excellence Foresight, the podcast that guides you on the journey to building top-performing, sustainable, and future-ready teams and organizations. We explore how to plan for excellence, dive into the latest trends, and share practical insights for achieving success in today’s rapidly changing world.
Our mission? To fast-track your journey to excellence. It's a challenge, but with the right strategies and understanding of unique organizational cultures, it's achievable.
In each episode, I’ll share insights from my 24 years of experience in diverse, multicultural settings. Plus, we’ll have inspiring guests sharing their stories and the lessons they've learned in their own quests for excellence. Whether you’re a leader or a team member, this podcast is your roadmap to success, helping you and your organization thrive by embracing best practices and future-focused thinking.
Excellence Foresight with Nancy Nouaimeh
NextGen Ed: Resilience & Innovation in a Globalized World with Dr. Raul Rodriguez
Curious about how a background in psychology and data science can lead to a transformative role in educational leadership? Join us as we sit down with Dr. Raul Rodriguez, Vice President of Voxen University, and uncover his fascinating journey from Spain to India. Dr. Rodriguez provides a candid look at his experiences and the challenges he faced moving from Europe to Asia, offering a compelling narrative of adaptability and resilience. Dr. Rodriguez also sheds light on the broader impact of AI on education, emphasizing the necessity of cultural intelligence in our increasingly globalized world.
In the second half of our conversation, we shift our focus to the evolving role of education and leadership within academia. With students increasingly choosing unconventional career paths, such as NGO work or self-introspection retreats in the Himalayas, how should educational institutions adapt? Dr. Rodriguez highlights the importance of supporting diverse aspirations and shares personal anecdotes, including a touching story about balancing passion and academics. This episode underscores the multifaceted responsibilities of academic leaders, emphasizing strategic thinking, adaptability, and effective management. Tune in to explore how education can serve as a tool for critical thinking and personal growth, beyond just job preparation.
Hello and welcome to the Excellence Foresight Podcast, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of culture, excellence and leadership. I'm your host, nancy Noemi, and I'm thrilled to bring you the first episode in this exciting second season focusing on the pathways to excellence. In this season, we'll explore the journey of achieving excellence, learning from the best and understanding nuances of leadership that drive outstanding results. The next few months, I will be joined by truly remarkable guests who have redefined what it means to excel in their field. They've got some incredible success stories to share that will inspire you to push the boundaries of what's possible. Whether you're looking to improve your own practices or gain insights into top tier strategies, you're in the right place.
Speaker 2:In today's episode, I welcome our special guest, dr Raul Rodriguez from Voxen University. Dr Rodriguez has implemented unique practices that have set new standards in innovation in education. He is the Vice President of Voxen University, a cognitive technologist and adjunct professor at Universidad del Externado, colombia. He serves as a member of the International Advisory Board at IBS Renepa and holds positions on the advisory boards of PU-CPR, johannesburg Business School, south Africa, midport Business School, south Africa, petthink and Space Basic. Additionally, dr Rodriguez is a visiting professor at University de Rosario and an expert at UNESCO. Welcome, dr Rodriguez.
Speaker 2:We're so pleased to have you with us here today, so get ready to be inspired as we delve into the extraordinary world of excellence with our special guest. Let's jump right in. Ai will transform the university experience, making education more personalized, accessible and efficient. Accessible and efficient by integrating artificial intelligence into our learning environments, we can better prepare students for the complexity of the future workforce. Dr Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google. So, dr Rawal, we're going to be touching a lot of interesting topics today, and let me start here by giving you the room to introduce yourself further. Can you tell us a little bit more about your background and what inspired you to pursue a career in education?
Speaker 1:It was a bit by mistake, if you can say by chance of life. I'm originally from Spain, but settled in Asia, in India, for over a decade now, and originally I used to work in different mixed fields, all within the area of psychology and data science. Subsequently I got into education because, honestly, I wanted someone to pay me to think. Primarily. That did not work as well, evidently. So I understood the main core of academia at that point in time was not just research, which is what originally I intended, but also heavy administration, as well as people management, or what you will call human capital management, and different quality controls around it. So when I initially got into academia, the expectations were very different. Of course, the reality turned out to be something else, and subsequently you realize that this is all part of the same mix and you have to work through it. But, completely by coincidence, I never intended to become an academician. Neither was the plan now, that's very interesting.
Speaker 2:I think very few of us end up where the intention was and initially when we started our studies right University studies. So this is really very, very interesting. And what drew you to Waxing University and what has been your journey there?
Speaker 1:Well, waxing was originally a school of business as a standalone school and then a school of design and a school of architecture. So subsequently, we're launching schools design and a school of architecture. So subsequently, we're launching schools. Later, in 2020, just on COVID times, we became a university by the government of India, so things changed quite a bit. I was only a faculty member at that point in time and I began to end up the business school during COVID, so it was a lot of fun and it was a work from home leadership. So obviously you can imagine the hurdles hiring new staff, new faculty students, everything online with tremendous adaptation through Zoom and Microsoft Teams, which, honestly, I don't think any of us knew before that so well, that was a new reality. And WorkSoon has grown exponentially in the last five years because, well, that was a new reality. And Woxing has grown exponentially in the last five years because, well, we have taken different steps in different directions and it's been a challenging journey, rewarding, but I think you don't regret anything, even the mistakes that you make. You really learn to the journey. And academia is a high intensive job if you're in administration, because we are basically running a business unit, so it's basically a company. Even if you're in a school, you're still running a company within the larger enterprise.
Speaker 1:So it's been fun, if you can say, and especially I was in mumbai earlier, subsequently hyderabad, where the campus is now, and it's a change, especially for somebody from spain, or from europe, for the matter. Coming to india is a challenge very different culturally, socially, everything is different and it takes a toll to adapt. Uh, it's a bit because the cultural shock is now in the reverse. When you go back to europe not the, not the indian context anymore and somewhere I feel you are for too long outside of your home country, but you don't really sit completely in the country that you are at the moment, so you're always living in the limbo of, of belonging nowhere. So that is the situation in which you are, and thankfully there are a lot of foreign faculty in the university, so I think that's a shared feeling among many. So that helps, uh, sharing the, the suffering, if you like, of course, yeah, I think you might see me smiling here.
Speaker 2:It's just uh, I'm an expert and I think I've lived in different cultures and I got different shocks at points in my life and in my career, and adapting to those different nuances and cultures are very important. I think we get culturally intelligent as we move from one culture to another and we navigate the challenges. We learn from our mistakes and we learn by doing different things and getting exposed to different environments. So thank you very much for this answer and I've got the chance to hear you speak in Dubai, in Sharjah, when we had the conference for ASQ, emea beginning of this year, and we were all very inspired by your talk and the thoughts you shared and how we should look at education from a different angle. So let's dig deep a little bit into the education innovative practices that you've had and if you can share with our audience here today some of the most exciting trends in education that you see emerging right now.
Speaker 1:Well, probably, obviously, the generative AI aspects which everyone is concerned about, primarily because it will to some extent take over certain functions of the kind of job profile that we have Now. It will not completely replace academicians or academia as such. Even companies that are trying to launch their own universities or their own credit courses are not able to do this fully, primarily because, well, at the end of the day, a university has certain values, certain networking, certain ecosystem that it gets inbuilt. Another challenge is probably and I think this is a continuous challenge are the geopolitical issues which keep on arising every other day and countries, especially UK and the countries Europe as well, the US, australia where they have high dependence on international students and, on the other hand, their cartelian business is not really helping out the ecosystem.
Speaker 1:At the same time, our biggest challenge, I think, is the crisis of unfulfilled potentials which we are going to be having for the next n number of decades, because the current generation, observing different batches and different industries worldwide, is basically entitled. They do not really want to listen or learn, for that matter, across the board under the new trend not really want to listen or learn, for that matter, across the board and that general trend they have been born in a time of social media, uh, easiness, pretty convenient times, fast messaging and easy banking system. No major crisis, no major war, no major conflict they have faced at large and talking about globally and certainly they had a pretty convenient time in general dance. Now they're sort of the face and difficulties and due to which you can see certain topics coming out, like gender pronouns and like which happen normally in countries which actually have a lot of time to think. But in countries where there is a lot of high intensity work happening, namely india, china and the like, where if you do not perform, your competition will take over immediately, they don't really have this, the time to get to such topics anymore.
Speaker 1:So there is a diversification, I believe in the new generations, country-wise and culturally, which is going to set a parallel shift. As a matter of fact and as an example, an anecdote, you can see all major American universities, business schools, they have an Indian origin dean or an Indian origin vice chancellor or rector. I mean, for a matter of fact, the UK has an Indian origin prime minister. So there is some reason for it and there is a not just geopolitical and geographical reason. There is a larger work culture, reason to it, which has impacted all these communities, and that's why, as a consequence, certain far-right or geopolitical issues arise in Rwanda.
Speaker 1:So, as you know, anyways, we go through the cycle Every 75 years. Humanity goes into some self-destructive mode and academia tends to try to adjust again and again with new generations, and it's tough, very tough, because we don't also know how to teach them. We are also figuring out on the way. So that's the adaptation issue. Technology is just there. It will help us, it will harm us. It's just temporary. New trends will come up, but I think unfulfilled potentials is the biggest problem we have. It's the really biggest problem we have.
Speaker 2:That's very interesting and I think I was looking at a presentation on chat GPT 4.0. And there's a lot of I think I was looking at a presentation on chat, gpt 4.0. And there's a lot of, I think, new things that are going to impact, I think, the way we do things. But, like you said, the untapped potential and helping students to fulfill that potential is very important. So how do you think education or educational institutions should be focusing on that and how they can really make a difference moving forward?
Speaker 1:Academia has two major functions and probably challenges. The main functions will be the knowledge creation and dissemination. The second function will be to train good, law-abiding humans. By law-abiding I don't mean by law, as in legal law, but regular social laws, as in not committing murder, not death, standard logical norms, not legally related per se. But I think we have a challenge in two facts. One is the current generation of professors or faculty members are becoming old, so they will retire. At the same time, the new generation also comes from a 1990s generation approximately. So they are also kind of affected, though they can relate, but they're also kind of affected by the current trends. At the same time, I'm not sure whether they will be able to carry the baton forward in certain aspects completely and others yes, because this is a generational change.
Speaker 1:So academia has this challenge of dealing with the students, who are by themselves a generational change, while dealing with the staff members, who are also undergoing a generational change. So we have these two waves and in between we are being asked for medicals, basically jobs and skills, and academia has to be faster than the industry. So all that is almost impossible. There is no way that academia can be at pace with industry if industry does not share in advance, because developing a curriculum which teaches you from zero to hundred takes time and you have to not just develop the curriculum, which is easy. You can make it on Excel and put it, that's not a big deal. But who will teach that? Who will deliver that? Do we have the expertise? Are people training that Like Genetic AI? Companies are asking us, in that case, to train the staff on large language models and integration with the metaverse. That's fine, we can train them.
Speaker 1:But why are you assuming that my faculty already have the skills? They're also learning along with the industry. So it's not that they are already ahead of the industry, because there's no way to be ahead of the industry. You can only catch up to speed and try to develop your skills. So that's where the dichotomies lie. And again, to reiterate, I think the geopolitical conflicts do not help. In fact the opposite. I don't know what this year will look like with so many national elections and what the outcomes of it will be, but it's concerning, particularly for academia, because we depend a lot on grants and projects, on government funding, private funding, and if that gets curtailed then we will be seeing a downtime of scientific discoveries in the next 10 years, and it's going to be a problem, a serious problem for everyone if we are focused on the wrong direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in fact that you mentioned this. I've started my career working in the research in Belgium and I saw that things have changed across the years since I left. I see they're challenging more and more to get funds and, like you said, grants and all of the things would be impacting somehow the research. And having been also an industry member, working with universities and looking at the curriculums, I see also that the partnership between private I mean between educational institutions and organizations and industries is there, but maybe not as effective as it should be to speed up the pace of transferring that knowledge to the students and making sure that the needs are really well taken care of. So that's really a great point. Do you have any success story that you would like to share with us about something you've done in Waukesha University that helped that and maybe changed the students' experience learning experience or something?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are several. There is one in particular I would like to focus on. Most is last year we launched self-reflective courses across all degrees. That's a mix of Western animation, philosophical lines of thought along with cognitive psychology. At first, of course, we got the usual response, which is rejection. Why do we need this? Why do I need to read Socrates, aristotle, buddha? Why don't I integrate this in my learnings? Later it became a self-introspective course where there's a journal that reported, there's a mentor.
Speaker 1:I went on evolving. As it evolved we're seeing students who at the end of their degrees, particularly master degrees, they were getting jobs in mainly JP Morgan and other of the world in India at good salary packages in comparison to the upper Indian standard Pretty good for a fairly fresh year almost and instead they chose to undertake NGO tasks. Then they chose to become for some time monks in the Himalayas, dedicated themselves to self-introspection, because they thought I gained the skills, I gained some opening or enlightenment, let's say to some extent, and we would like to first dedicate myself some time and then I will get into the corporate world if required, or start entrepreneurship world and work for somebody else or generate my own income else, or generate my own income. Now, if you turn this to parents or companies, they may think well, not very remarkable. But if you think about it, we were able to train students with skills. Students were able to take a conscious, logical decision, to decide whether I want to become a mountain climber, I want to become a cyclist or I want to work for JP Morgan.
Speaker 1:That's my problem, not anybody's problem. But I have the skills. So if I want to sell, I can sell. If I want to make a business plan, I can. I understand the principles of engineering finance, whichever degree that may have been. That is ultimately what academia and universities are supposed to really be for, not for job generation. That is not the task that has become the task. Unfortunately, that is not the origin of it. The origin was to train and stimulate thought and create lines of critical thinking so they can question status quo. Of course, different countries have different standards on the status quo questioning part, but that is actually what academia is for. When you see this and then those students write back to you or they meet you wherever you travel and they say that I think you guys helped me change my life. That is ultimately why you are in this profession, not for salaries, neither for rankings. You're here for really changing, or helping change to some extent, their life and also change yours in the process.
Speaker 2:I mean, wow, what a story I think it reminds me of. My son is a cyclist you mentioned cycling and he wants, he hopes, to become a professional cyclist and we moved to Ivan two years back and that was really life changing for him and for us. But for him, because he is now, he's doing a diploma on business management and sports science, so he's focusing on his sports. The university understands his needs, his requirements, his motivation and they're supporting him in that and he's able to get education still the university education but also do what his passion is and every day he cycles four or five hours and then that's what's making him happy. So he's developing that skill in him and then, in the same time, able to do some study, some of the topics that are very relevant to what he likes and what his passion is. So that's a great example and I think this has rendered the role of education and we will see more and more jobs changing in the future with AI and we will focus more on some social skills and some more human-centric things right. So that's very important. I think this is a great example. Thank you so much for sharing.
Speaker 2:I would like now maybe to move a little bit. To the core of what the Excellence Foresight podcast is is leadership and excellence, and I have a few questions here for you about that, about excellence in education, as, when we look at it from a management perspective, from leadership perspective, and educational institutions work towards achieving that level of excellence. You've shared some great examples, but maybe we can dig a little bit more deeper into the key qualities of the effective leader in the education field. Now, technical and educational background and academic background are very important, but you will have to manage an institution right. You will have to lead a team of faculty and students. So what are the qualities required for this role?
Speaker 1:I would say your mind needs to run into different 100 different directions, with different balloons floating all the time, because ultimately, in this particular role, you have academia, then you have administration, you have external engagements government corporates and obviously you have funding engagements government corporates and obviously you have funding as well involved, while you ultimately don't people tend to forget about that you also have your own life and you have your family, so you always have this regular people problems plus additionally, thousands of others as organizations grow and you are acquiring more people and more students and more staff. For a hundred people, there will be a thousand others as the organizations grow and you are acquiring more people and more students and more staff, for 100 people, there will be a thousand problems. So that policymaking, processmaking, where there's a structure and there is a process, where there's a fallback plan, which may sometimes fail. I think the best example of that in our organization could have been the Dubai floods and how Emirates was handling or not handling the situation. So that was an example of a good corporation without a fallback plan for a particular location.
Speaker 1:So finding solutions, you know, as things happen, is the same job in academia Things may occur, you may never foresee them. Then again you rework it out and you go on adding to it. So I think that's the main task to observe and really think a lot. I initially said that I wanted somebody to pay me to think, but I do nothing but thinking. The problem is that thinking has to be accompanied by a lot of action and a lot of follow-up to those actions. So it's not just telling somebody that this has to be done, but, as you know, you have to be on top of their heads repeatedly. So that takes a substantial amount of time, and sometimes it's done, sometimes it's not done, sometimes it's done by ground, or sometimes it's done but not done to the fullest. So there is always a mix of opinions.
Speaker 1:I think that's the beauty of dealing with humans, that it it creates always this dichotomy and you really have to find out some some solution. Apart from that, academia is, if you're a professor, not an administrator, it's a pretty enriching job if you like your students and your students like you. It's always a two-way street. Those students tend to think other ways. It's always a two-way street. You also have to feel respected and comfortable in the class. You cannot just go to a class where nobody reads and nobody prepares for the session. There has to be some self-respect. That has to come in order for you to keep on performing physically.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think this is really needed everywhere right Building relations. Whether you are in academia or in corporate, you need to build relations with everyone around you, and that's how things work. And you mentioned something very interesting is about execution, and I think we're going more and more towards that. Even in academia, where we focus on execution, we focus on making things happen right. So planning is great. We have ideas, we have thoughts, we put forward nice ideas, but if we don't execute those, I think at the end we don't get the results. So, even in academia, that's a great focus and this is part of what we focus on when we say culture of excellence. So, when it comes to the academia and being a VP in the university, how do you foster a culture of excellence? Now, you shared some of these things, but do you focus on creating that culture or you leave it to get developed as you work with your colleagues and the students?
Speaker 1:You have to have some protocols and activities to build a culture. At the same time, as I said, there will be occasions where you have not heard what will happen. And now that you have foreseen it because things occur and well, covid is a great example I mean we had to do a complete 360 degree change of everything and that teaches you at the same time, also teaches the system and builds in maturity. Mistakes, crisis is not to be avoided, but it is to is to learn how to handle it and you learn more from your losses and you're going to learn from your wins. So it's important to lose, but not to fall back, but to fall forward, and at least I see what I'm hitting, not something which I don't know. Where am I? So that's, I think. That's I think, the best way to build culture to fail, but fail together. If we win, we will also win together, but we will grow through, not separate our journeys into different tracks because we fell apart. That will not really work out.
Speaker 2:That's great, and I think in corporate, we talk about alignment, we talk about bringing people together and making sure that we all exhibit a certain behavior that's fit for the organization. So I think it's the same in academia, and I think students are the one who benefits finally from all this. So this is also a great example In terms of if you want to look at change and innovation and AI introduction of AI into all what you're doing what are the strategies you would recommend to our audience? What are the things that they should be doing to make sure that change happens in an efficient way and we benefit from these technologies and make sure that they are adding value?
Speaker 1:Well, primarily, you have to first come to the mental conclusion that AI is not going to go anywhere. Ai and many other technologies, but AI in particular is going to change certain jobs and is going to change certain work styles. At the same time, we should not start trying to learn to code, to learn the mathematical equations behind it if those are not up to our cup of tea, because we will be getting frustrated. Ai has two verticals to it. One is obviously the mathematical, statistical side. The other is the psychological side of things. This is where intelligence learning comes from, as terminologies, basically 1940s psychologist experiments. So these two verticals are very complex in them by themselves. What we got as a byproduct are ChagBPT, gemini, etc. Now it's better to learn how to utilize such platforms and how to integrate them into our work routine to optimize than trying to be becoming an AI expert. As you can see on LinkedIn, every alternate day there are AI experts like they are growing the trees. So that's a mistake, because if you understand the core and you start questioning equations which is where all this comes from there is no base to it. So rather, use the current tools which are there that have been launched. Openai also launched Omni last week. It's a good platform, can be utilized yet improves.
Speaker 1:We have to understand that the mistakes that AI does now this is the worst that AI will get From here only can go up. So if this is where we are currently, then later it can really help us in various forms. But it will take over certain job profiles which are clerical and administrative. But that is why it has been created. It has not been created for fun. It's not a video game. It is for optimizing and we have realized that we are wasting a lot of human time and potentially very trivial jobs, which actually is not required.
Speaker 1:So whether people will accept or not, that is up to the individual, but there is no escape. Whether we like it or not. We can dream about it, we can think that this will not happen, but this has already happened. So there is no going back now. There's only accepting and uplifting and learning and upgrading from there. But they're very difficult. Some people will not be able to upgrade at this at that particular age with their cognitive capabilities because of, again, aging and different circumstances or lack of willingness as well. So there is going to be the general problems with adaptation, uh, which is rejection, denial, etc, etc, etc. So the usual basically, but again, that's part of industrial revolution absolutely and I totally agree.
Speaker 2:I think we should learn how to use ai in a smart way, in a wise way, and not really waste our time, sometimes going into areas which are not necessarily required, but there's a lot of things and we see a lot of potential in that and, in a way, they're going to help us to optimize our work, to make sure that we reduce the waste of time and work on things which are a little bit adding more value and fulfilling our potential and what we can do. And I think this is where creativity, imagination, all of these areas would be further developed in us as humans. And Dr Raul, with this I come to the end of my questions for today. I would like to leave the room for you if you would like to share anything else before we wrap up the session today.
Speaker 1:Largely. I will sum it up to going forward in the next 10, 20 years, either we get busy living or we get busy dying, and that's the two options we have. Some people choose the latter, unfortunately, but we only have one shot, really, and approximately a lifespan working lifespan of 40 to 50 years at max. We can make the best of it or make the worst of it, but that is up to the individual and where they want to invest their time. But the time is not coming back, as we all know. So this is the only option, and that's something you learn in academia, because you see new faces every six months. It's a constant cycle of new repetitiveness of process, and then you realize that that is quite short.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think we have a lot to think of. I thank you very much for being with us here today. Great thoughts, great ideas and things to think of moving forward and I think this is the second time we interact with Dr Raoul. It's been always inspiring. Thanks again for being with us here today and as we wrap up this enlightening episode of Excellence Forecast, I would like again to extend a heartfelt thank you to you for your invaluable insights and experiences your innovative approach and education that is defining education are truly inspiring and to our listeners. Thank you for joining us on this journey into the new ways for excellence.
Speaker 2:We hope you found today's conversation inspiring and thought provoking. As we did Remember, the pursuit of excellence is a continuous journey and by embracing innovation and leadership, we can all make a significant impact. Don't forget to subscribe to Excellence Foresight and stay tuned for more exciting episodes with remarkable guests who are setting new standards in their fields. Until next time, keep striving for excellence and pushing the boundaries of what's possible. I'm Nancy Noemi, and this has been Excellence Foresight Podcast. See you in the next episode.
