How to Build Systems that Actually Work with Nancy Nouaimeh

Why do perfect solutions fail to stick in organizations? The answer lies not in the quality of our problem-solving, but in our ability to create sustainable systems that support long-term success.

In this deep dive into organizational excellence, I unpack the critical difference between systems that look good in documentation and those that actually drive results in the real world. Drawing from the powerful framework of Shingo Systems Design, I explore how tradition often trumps tools when it comes to organizational change, and why a thoughtful approach to system design can bridge this gap.

You'll discover the three foundational elements of effective systems according to Dr. Edwards Deming: components, interdependence, and a clear aim. I break down the distinction between informal systems (the organizational equivalent of a random pile of rocks) and formal systems (those rocks purposefully arranged into a bridge)—and how this difference dramatically impacts your results.

Perhaps most importantly, we explore Peter Senge's profound insight that "structure influences behavior." When placed in identical systems, different people tend to produce remarkably similar results. This reality gives us a powerful lever for transformation: by designing systems with intention, we can generate consistent behaviors aligned with our strategic goals.

Whether you're struggling with sustainability in your improvement efforts or looking to take your organization to the next level of excellence, this episode provides practical guidance for creating systems that work—not just on paper, but in practice. Remember that simplicity is key; as I share in this episode, effective system thinking isn't about fighting complexity with complexity, but rather creating clear, aligned structures that everyone can understand and execute.

Ready to transform your organizational systems from informal collections to purposeful structures? Listen now, and take the first step toward sustainable excellence.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Systems That Work
• 1:03 Why Organizations Struggle to Sustain Solutions
• 1:33 Defining Systems and Their Components
• 2:21 Formal vs. Informal Systems
• 3:41 System Maps as Powerful Tools
• 5:53 Creating Effective Systems: Next Steps
• 7:33 Episode Closing and Call to Action

Transcript

Nancy Nouaimeh: 0:13

Hello and welcome to the Excellence Foresight Podcast. I'm your host, Nancy Nouaimeh, and today we're diving deep into a topic that's critical for driving sustainable success in organizations building systems that work and not just on paper. Now you might be asking yourself what does that really mean? Well, I'll break it here today, using insights from Shingo Systems Design, the workshop that we've been teaching to organizations, and exploring how these organizations can move beyond just having good systems on paper to creating systems that are truly effective, aligned and sustainable. So let's get into it. Too many organizations struggle to stay competitive, not because they can't solve problems, but because they can't sustain the solutions. They might introduce great tools and techniques, but they fail to recognize that tradition often supersedes tools. What really makes a difference is a shift in behavior and culture, and that change must be supported by the right systems, the systems that motivate those behaviors. So let me take a step back here.

Nancy Nouaimeh: 1:20

When we talk about systems, let's start with a definition. According to the Shingo Institute, a system is simply a collection of tools working together to accomplish an intended outcome. But here's the key word intended. Now, the complexity of this word intended reminds me of examples that Patterson gave. He used the analogy of a family as a system. Think about it. While families try to function harmoniously, it's easy to see how unintended consequences arise due to the complexity of human interactions. And if we look at organizations in the same way, we realize that systems can also produce unintended outcomes if they're not designed properly.

Nancy Nouaimeh: 2:00

Now let's talk about the foundational concept in system thinking, which is something Dr Edwards Deming popularized in his books Out of the Crisis and the New Economics for Industry, government Education. He defines a system as a network of interdependent components that work together to try to accomplish the aim of the system. This definition highlights the three critical elements for designing effective systems. Element one components the individual elements that make up the system. Second interdependence and network. How those components work together. The aim, the intended outcome or goal of the system. He goes beyond just a normal goal. We're looking at the aim, which provides a common direction for people working in the system. Here's the thing when these elements work together in harmony, a system can deliver consistent, effective results. When they don't, it can lead to chaos or inefficiencies.

Nancy Nouaimeh: 2:59

And here's where we need to make an important distinction Formal versus informal systems. An informal system is like a pile of rocks there's no structure, no organization and it's just a bunch of elements sitting there not really doing anything purposeful, while a formal system, on the other hand, is like those rocks being arranged to form a bridge. That's a clear purpose, structure and intended outcome, and that's what we want from our system designs with purpose. So how can organizations shift their approach to creating these purposeful systems? The answer lies in system thinking, and system thinking is about using a structured methodology to design systems that drive strategic results, and it involves three key steps First, identify existing systems. Understand how your current processes, tools and behaviors are interacting. Second, connect components into their respective systems. Align the elements so they work together efficiently. And third, align systems for better strategic results. Ensure that all systems support your overall goals and vision.

Nancy Nouaimeh: 4:08

Now let's take a look at what we mean by system design. Think about it like this Architects design buildings before creating blueprints. Architects design buildings before creating blueprints. Engineers design parts through schematics and tailors design suits by first creating patterns. In each case, designers use a standard method to communicate their ideas.

Nancy Nouaimeh: 4:29

In system design, we use a system map, which is a visual tool that helps us document, design and communicate the structure of the system we're creating. The system map isn't just a fancy diagram. It's a powerful tool for organizations, and here are a few reasons why. First, it helps us document the existing system and its components. Second, it helps us stabilize and maintain the system by identifying areas for improvement. Third, it integrates continuous improvement principles, helping organizations engage in everyday improvement principles. Helping organizations engage in everyday improvement, as Masaaki Imai would say everybody improvement, everywhere improvement.

Nancy Nouaimeh: 5:07

A key concept in system thinking is that a system can generate both positive and negative behaviors. As Peter Senge puts it, the first principle of system thinking is that structure influences behavior. When placed in the same system, people, however different they are, tend to produce similar results, and that's what organization is trying to achieve For quality and excellence, professional. This is really crucial. We want our system to generate intended behaviors, consistent, aligned and result-driven behaviors, and the only way to know if your system is producing those behaviors is by assessing your culture, the results and the behaviors generated by your system. Now here's the big takeaway For system map simplicity is key. I've learned that the simpler you keep things, the more likely people will understand, engage with and execute the system effectively. Singe also wants us not to overcomplicate things, saying for most people, system thinking means fighting complexity with complexity, devising increasingly complex solutions to increasingly complex problems. In fact, this is the antithesis of real system thinking. This is not what we want to achieve. That's why the system map is so powerful. It's a simple tool. It keeps things simple while enabling you to see the full picture of your system.

Nancy Nouaimeh: 6:33

So what's the next step for organizations looking to create systems that really work and aren't just pretty ideas on paper? First, define what a system means for your organization. Not everything is a system, so be clear on what qualifies as a system. Clarify that and create a common language. Second plan, to transform informal structures into formal integrated systems those disconnected processes, programs, tools and measurements. Put them together in a formal way to generate your system map. And finally, remember that the Shingo Institute has created a system map tool that's simple yet highly effective for documenting and improving your core systems. This is it for today's episode of the Excellence Foresight Podcast. I hope you've gained some insights into how you can design systems that work, not just on paper but in practice. If you have any questions or want to learn more about system thinking and continuous improvement, feel free to reach out to me. And remember creating sustainable systems starts with clarity, alignment and simplicity. Until next time, keep striving for excellence. Thank you for tuning in.